ถ้าคุณอยากเป็นนักวิทยาศาสตร์ แต่ผลสอบที่ออกมาคะแนนอยู่ท้ายแถว คุณจะทำเช่นไร?
จะพยายามต่อไปหรือจะเปลี่ยนไปทำอย่างอื่น – มาซาโตชิ โคชิบะ เลือกอย่างทำอย่างแรก

ศาสตราจารย์ มาซาโตชิ โคชิบะ ปัจจุบันอายุ 76 ปี และได้รับการเสนอชื่อให้ได้รับรางวัล โนเบลสาขาฟิสิกส์ประจำปี 2545� เนื่องจากเป็นหนึ่งในผู้บุกเบิกสาขาวิชา “นิวตริโนฟิสิกส์” (Neutrino Physics) ศ. โคชิบะ นับเป็นนักฟิสิกส์รางวัลโนเบลคนที่สี่ของประเทศญี่ปุ่นต่อจาก ฮิเดกิ ยูกาว่า, ชินอิติโร โทโมนากะ และ ลีโอ อีซากิ

ในวันแถลงข่าวต่อสื่อมวลชนเนื่องในโอกาสที่เขาได้รับรางวัลโนเบล ศ. โคชิบะ ได้นำเอา ใบแจ้งคะแนนหรือ Transcript จากมหาวิทยาลัยโตเกียวซึ่งเขาจบการศึกษาในปี ค.ศ. 1951 มาแสดงต่อสาธารณะชน (เป็นนัยว่าอัดอั้นตันใจมานาน)

Transcript ของเขานั้นแสดงให้เห็นว่า ในจำนวนวิชาฟิสิกส์ทั้งหมด 16 วิชาที่เขาเรียน ซึ่ง 11 วิชาเป็นวิชาบังคับ และที่เหลืออีก 5 วิชาเป็นวิชาเลือกนั้น มีเพียงแค่ 2 วิชา ซึ่งเกี่ยวกับการทดลองฟิสิกส์เท่านั้นที่ โคชิบะ ได้เกรด A (เขาได้รางวัลจากด้านการทดลอง) โดยที่ตัวเขาเองยอมรับว่า “สองวิชานี้ใครๆก็สามารถได้ A ถ้าเข้าเรียนครบทุกครั้ง”

ส่วนวิชาสำคัญอย่าง ฟิสิกส์อะตอม และวิชาคลื่นแม่เหล็กไฟฟ้า โคชิบะทำได้แค่ผ่าน แบบคาบเส้นเท่านั้น ส่วนวิชาที่เหลือได้รับการประเมิณเพียงแค่เกรด B

ศ. โคชิบะกล่าวว่าบรรดาเพื่อนร่วมชั้นของเขานั้นได้เกรด A กันอย่างน้อยๆก็ครึ่งหนึ่งของวิชาที่ลงเรียนทั้งหมด เขามักจะกล่าวว่า “ผมน่าจะสอบได้ที่สุดท้ายของรุ่นนั้น”

แม้แต่อาจารย์ของเขายังเคยแนะนำให้ โคชิบะ ไปทำงานด้านอื่นเสีย เหตุเพราะว่า คะแนนสอบของเขานั้นทำได้ “ไม่ดีเอาเสียเลย”�นอกจากนั้นคะแนนที่ย่ำแย่ของเขา ยังตามมาหลอกหลอนเขาอยู่เสมอๆ แม้แต่ในวันแต่งงาน เมื่อมีแขกคนหนึ่งพูดเปรยๆว่า “อนาคตของเจ้าบ่าวคงจะไม่ค่อยรุ่งเรืองเท่าไหร่นัก เพราะว่าเขาจบการศึกษาด้วยคะแนนต่ำสุดในชั้นจากมหาวิทยาลัยโตเกียว”

ภรรยาของเขาคือ เคโกะ ปัจจุบันอายุ 71ปี ให้เหตุผลเกี่ยวกับผลการเรียนของสามีว่า
“เนื่องจากในสมัยนั้นเป็นช่วงที่สงครามโลกครั้งที่ 2 พึ่งจะสงบลงไม่นาน สามีของฉันไม่สามารถที่จะเรียนหนังสือเพียงอย่างเดียว เขาต้องทำงานหารายได้พิเศษเลี้ยงตัวด้วย”
เธอยังกล่าวอีกว่าสามีของเธอนั้นไปโรงเรียนเพียงอาทิตย์ละครั้งหรือสองครั้งเท่านั้น

อย่างไรก็ตามโคชิบะก็ไม่ละความพยายามและมุมานะตั้งใจทำงานวิจัยทางด้านฟิสิกส์ที่เขารัก โดยไม่ท้อแท้ต่อคำสบประมาทของคนอื่น และได้พิสูจน์ให้ทุกๆคนเห็นด้วยผลงานวิจัยของเขา ซึ่งเป็นที่ยอมรับกันทั่วไปในวงการฟิสิกส์ และในวันนี้เขาก็ได้เป็นนักวิทยาศาสตร์รางวัลโนเบล

ศ. โคชิบะ กล่าวว่าการที่เขาออกมาพูดเรื่องเกรดของตัวเองก็เพื่อต้องการที่จะกระตุ้น ให้นักเรียนรุ่นใหม่ๆ ให้สนใจที่จะศึกษาความรู้อย่างลึกซึ้งมากกว่าจะทำเพื่อการสอบ

“ใบคะแนนนั้นไม่ได้การันตีความสำเร็จของนักเรียน (ไม่ว่าจะเกรดดีหรือไม่ดี)”
“คนที่อยู่รอบๆตัวผมไม่กี่คนที่จะเชื่อว่าเด็กนักเรียนที่จบการศึกษาเป็นลำดับสุดท้ายของชั้น จะสามารถเป็นศาสตราจารย์ในมหาวิทยาลัยได้” ศ. โคชิบะกล่าวต่อสื่อมวลชน

“ยังมีหลายสิ่งหลายอย่างที่คนเราสามารถที่จะทำให้สำเร็จได้แม้ว่าจะมีผมสอบที่ย่ำแย่ แต่ผมก็ไม่ได้หมายความว่า การสอบได้คะแนนดีนั้นไม่สำคัญนะ” ศ. โคชิบะกล่าวต่อไปว่า “สิ่งที่สำคัญที่สุดคือ ความตั้งใจจริงและมีความรักในสิ่งที่กำลังศึกษาต่างหาก”

อย่างไรก็ตามเพื่อนๆของ ศ. โคชิบะ กล่าวว่า โคชิบะนั้นไม่ได้มีความสามารถน้อยนิด เหมืองดั่งเกรดของเขาที่ปรากฎในใบทรานสคริปแต่อย่างใด หลายคนบอกว่าเข้ามีความสนใจที่หลากหลาย ไม่ว่าจะเป็นด้านวิทยาศาสตร์ จนรวมไปถึงด้านวรรณกรรมอีกด้วย

อดีตเพื่อนร่วมชั้นเรียนสมัยมัธยมที่เคยเป็นถึงรัฐมนตรีว่าการกระทรวงการคลังของญีปุ่น คือ นายโยชิโร ฮายาชิ ปัจจุบันอายุ 75 ปี ย้อนรำลึกความหลังเมื่อครั้งที่โคชิบะ เข้ามาเสนอให้เขาอนุมัติเงินให้ เพื่อที่จะนำไปสร้างเครื่องตรวจวัดอนุภาคนิวตริโน Kamiokande ว่า
“เขา (โคชิบะ) เข้ามาพบผมเพื่อขอให้สนับสนุนและบอกกับผมว่า “ถ้าโครงการนี้สำเร็จ ฉันจะได้รางวัลโนเบล””
นาย ฮายาชิ กล่าวต่อ “ตอนนี้เขาได้รับรางวัลจริงๆ”

อ่านข่าวนี้แล้วนึกถึงการเรียนการสอนในบ้านเราที่ในปัจจุบันมุ่งเน้นการทำข้อสอบเป็นสำคัญ ไม่ว่าจะเป็นการสอบในโรงเรียนหรือแม้แต่ในมหาวิทยาลัย ที่นักเรียนส่วนมากมักจะคิดแต่ว่า ทำอย่างไรจะทำข้อสอบได้ มากกว่าที่จะสนใจทำความเข้าใจในวิชาความรู้ให้ลึกซึ้ง ถ้ารู้ว่าอันไหนไม่ออกสอบแล้วล่ะก็ไม่ค่อยจะอยากเรียนกัน ทำให้ผู้เขียนนึกถึงคำกล่าวของ ท่านอาจารย์ ป๋วย อึ้งภากรณ์ ที่กล่าวว่า

.. ถ้าไม่เรียนจงอย่าสอบ ไม่ใช่ว่า ถ้าไม่สอบแล้วอย่าเรียน ..

ฝากเป็นข้อคิดให้นักเรียนและนักศึกษารุ่นใหม่ๆได้คิดกัน


Transcript
Transcript

DeVorkin:
I am with Professor Masatoshi Koshiba, Professor Emeritus — is that correct? — of physics, the University of Tokyo. And the auspices of the interview are the American Institute of Physics. Please state your name.
Koshiba:
My name is Koshiba, Masatoshi Koshiba. Just call me Toshi.
DeVorkin:
Toshi. Okay. Toshi, could you tell me something about your family, who your father and mother were, their names, something of their background, the kind of family you came from.
Koshiba:
Alright. My father was a professional Imperial army officer who fought in China during the last World War. And my mother was named Hayako. She died when I was 3 years old. My father married my mother's elder sister, who became my second mother.
DeVorkin:
And your father's full name?
Koshiba:
Toshio. Because my father was an army officer, I was told to enter the military school during the war. Luckily or unluckily, one month before the entrance examination I got polio, which made my right arm numb. It's still numb.
DeVorkin:
But you have full control of it.
Koshiba:
Well, I don't have any strength. That made me exempt from military service during the war.
DeVorkin:
Tell me, when were you born and where?
Koshiba:
I was born in 1926 in a city near Nagoya, Toyohashi City.
DeVorkin:
Okay. Now your father was a professional military officer. He was stationed there?
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. That was the time when he was stationed in a regiment in Toyohashi City.
DeVorkin:
Okay. Do you have brothers and sisters?
Koshiba:
I have one elder sister, and from the second mother I have two brothers, younger brothers.
DeVorkin:
So you are the oldest son.
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
DeVorkin:
Could you tell me what your siblings are doing, or what their lives were? Your older sister, did she —?
Koshiba:
She married an accountant. They are living in the southern part of Yokosuka City.
DeVorkin:
Okay. And your two younger brothers?
Koshiba:
My next youngest brother is living in the western suburb of Tokyo, and is rather well-to-do financially. He is the president of a company.
DeVorkin:
President of a company?
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
DeVorkin:
Does he have training?
Koshiba:
He graduated university, and majored in finance and economics. He then married the daughter of the company owner, and sort of inherited that company.
DeVorkin:
Okay. And your second brother?
Koshiba:
The youngest one has been a teacher of the Japanese language in high school. He is retired now.
DeVorkin:
Okay. Did your father have university training?
Koshiba:
No, he went to military cadet school.
DeVorkin:
Okay. So tell me a little bit about your childhood and your activities. What were you interested in as a child? Did you have hobbies?
Koshiba:
Well, after I got polio —
DeVorkin:
How old were you when you —?
Koshiba:
I was 13. I was in the first year of middle school. Before that I was rather good at Japanese fencing, Kendo.
DeVorkin:
Kendo, yes.
Koshiba:
But after polio I couldn't do anything athletic, so my hobby at the time was to build model airplanes.
DeVorkin:
Oh really? Okay.
Koshiba:
I was seriously thinking of becoming a model airplane shop owner, selling model airplanes.
DeVorkin:
Did you join a club? Did you have friends who did the same thing?
Koshiba:
Yes.
DeVorkin:
And did you build them from kits, or did you just build them from scratch?
Koshiba:
From scratch.
DeVorkin:
Were they models that were representative of specific aircraft, or did you make them to fly?
Koshiba:
I made them to fly.
DeVorkin:
Of any particular aircraft?
Koshiba:
No. I didn't aim at any specific type of airplane. When I made a flying model, I made it very simple so that it flew a longer time.
DeVorkin:
So you were going for performance.
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
DeVorkin:
What was the mode of power? Was it a gas engine or —?
Koshiba:
A rubber band.
DeVorkin:
Rubber band. Okay.
Koshiba:
Simplest type.
DeVorkin:
Balsa wood? Using balsa wood?
Koshiba:
In those days balsa was not easy to obtain, because it was not produced in this country.
DeVorkin:
So what materials did you use?
Koshiba:
Bamboo.
DeVorkin:
I made some model airplanes too, and we would sometimes make the skeletal structure and then cover it with paper and then dope the paper. Did you do the same thing?
Koshiba:
Yes, I did the same thing.
DeVorkin:
I'd like to know more about your interests then. Was it in aircraft or aviation? What kinds of books did you read, what kinds of things were you interested in?
Koshiba:
The Japanese educational system followed the old German educational system. And after six years of primary school or elementary school, we had five years of what is called middle school. After that, we had three years of what is called higher school.
DeVorkin:
Higher school.
Koshiba:
There were a number of higher schools, although in Japan the one called the first higher school in Tokyo was supposed to be the best school. And so we wanted to enter this first higher school. I liked mathematics, but when I was hospitalized because of polio, I also had diptheria.
DeVorkin:
Diptheria, yes.
Koshiba:
Yes. I was hospitalized for about half a year. And my teacher of this middle school happened to be a mathematics teacher.
DeVorkin:
Was this school in Toyohashi?
Koshiba:
No, in Yokosuka. You see I spent only one year in Toyohashi after birth. And because my father was sent to Manchuria, we were left behind in Yokosuka.
DeVorkin:
So that's where you had your early training.
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
DeVorkin:
So you had a teacher who was a mathematician.
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. He was very good to me. He is still alive in Yokosuka. While I was in hospital, he gave me a couple of books to read. One of them was a small book which was a dialogue with Albert Einstein.
DeVorkin:
The World As I See It or —?
Koshiba:
I haven't seen the English version of it, and I don't remember the name, but a dialogue takes place with Albert Einstein about how physics was created.
DeVorkin:
Oh, could this have been Einstein and Infeld?
Koshiba:
Yes, that's it! It was translated into Japanese. Even though I didn't understand the simple statements in this book, they did attract my attention. In those days I didn't have any notion of becoming a physicist. Further, because of polio, I didn't have to worry about military drafting. However, I didn't do very well in the entrance exam and I failed.
DeVorkin:
This was an entrance exam for the higher school?
Koshiba:
Yes.
DeVorkin:
Okay.
Koshiba:
The second time I tried I got into the first higher school.
DeVorkin:
Now this would be in Tokyo.
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. And everybody had to live together in the dormitory on the campus, and that was a very good thing, because science majors or literature majors, everybody had to mix.
DeVorkin:
Let me ask how could your family afford to send you away to school? Was your father relatively well-to-do, or was there money available?
Koshiba:
Well, by that time my father was an army colonel. He sent money for us.
DeVorkin:
So he was quite a high-ranking person.
Koshiba:
Yes.
DeVorkin:
When did you go to the higher school?
Koshiba:
That was in 1945, four months before the end of the World War.
DeVorkin:
Oh. Now Tokyo was certainly —
Koshiba:
Yes, devastated.
DeVorkin:
Devastated. So, were you actually in Tokyo during this time?
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
DeVorkin:
You were not evacuated.
Koshiba:
Our school was on the southwest side of Tokyo, and the majority of the bombing was down in the central and eastern part of the city. Even though the area around our school was pretty much burned down.
DeVorkin:
This must have been a very, very difficult time for all of you.
Koshiba:
Yes. What else can I tell you?
DeVorkin:
Well, what was the instruction like in the higher school? Were there teachers that are memorable to you or important to you in the development of your interests?
Koshiba:
Oh yes.
DeVorkin:
You also mentioned that everybody had to live together in a dormitory, and so people interested in literature were put in with other arts people and that sort of thing. I would like to know if you were concentrating in any particular area at that time yourself.
Koshiba:
Well, in those days I was quite interested in literature. As a matter of fact, I was seriously thinking of entering the German literature department in the university. As you know, in those days, because boys of different fields of interest lived together for three years, we made many good friendships. For instance, among my friends I count not only physicists and scientists, but also a very well known poet, the president of the Bank of Japan, and many others in different fields.
DeVorkin:
How big was your class? How many people?
Koshiba:
Well, altogether this first higher school had about one thousand students.
DeVorkin:
Oh, one thousand students. And you all lived together.
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
DeVorkin:
But this was, as we'd say in the United States, the cream of the crop; this was the highest ranking high school in Japan.
Koshiba:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
DeVorkin:
Okay.
Koshiba:
There were three physics teachers in this higher school, and they all gave us lectures and training. One physics professor gave me a very bad mark. The other two gave me good marks. When I was in the second year of this higher school, I was elected to be the vice president of the student body. This is a very responsible appointment. Even during the war we believed in self-government. So the student body elected the president and vice president, and organized a cabinet. This cabinet controled everything — daily life and everything in the dormitory. When I was in that capacity, I couldn't pay attention to the courses, so my grades went down considerably. When I was graduated from this school I was just about in the middle. So, all the students in the science field wanted to enter the physics department, because that was the department that was very attractive to science major students.
DeVorkin:
When did you become interested or decide to become a science student?
Koshiba:
This I am going to tell you.
DeVorkin:
Okay.
Koshiba:
At that time I was more interested in German literature. You know Japanese people like hot baths.
DeVorkin:
Hot baths. Yes.
Koshiba:
Because everything was burned down around the school, our friend in the student government went out and found a transformer which was still usable, got it to the campus, and used this transformer to boil water to make a big hot bath. So everybody around the area came to take a hot bath. One cold night, I was taking a bath; because the window was broken, cold wind came in and because it was very hot water there was a lot of steam. You couldn't see people 2 meters away. And I could hear the voice of this particular professor who gave me the flunking grade.
DeVorkin:
A flunking grade you said?
Koshiba:
Well, the very low grade.
DeVorkin:
The lowest grade, yes, okay.
Koshiba:
He was answering his favorite student. His favorite student, of course, was aiming at the physics department.
DeVorkin:
Who was that? Do you remember who it was?
Koshiba:
I know. I remember the name, but I won't tell you the name. You'll find out the reason why later. The professor asked, "Young man, which department do you think Koshiba will apply for?" This colleague of mine, a student replied, "Oh, I don't know. He is interested in German literature." And the professor said, "Well, whatever he chooses to apply for, it cannot be in the physics department. Either German literature or Indian philosophy." That's what this professor said. That statement made me furious, so I started studying physics. After one full month of concentrated work, I passed the physics department requirement, while the favorite student of the professor failed.
DeVorkin:
Really? Oh, boy.
Koshiba:
Yes. That's why I'm not going to tell you the name.
DeVorkin:
Fair enough. I would be interested to know, though, of those who were among your classmates who did go on in science, in astronomy and physics. Are there any names that immediately come to mind?
Koshiba:
Kozai.
DeVorkin:
Kozai did.
Koshiba:
Yes. There were other well-established scientists from my school. Let me see. One of my colleagues became a professor of I think meteorology at Columbia many years ago, but I don't know where he is now.
DeVorkin:
Okay. No, I meant just the people that you knew directly.
Koshiba:
That was a few years after the war ended, and my father was retained in China for one year, and then was released and came back. However, because of his career he was banned from any public service. So I had to ask a friend who is rather high up in society, actually this man was from the same higher school. Simply because you are a graduate of this school, you get some sort of credit or status.
DeVorkin:
Credit or status?
Koshiba:
Yes. You see, the graduate of this higher school goes to the University of Tokyo, to various ministries, and then becomes a high ranking officer. Those people, when they need somebody, seek out a younger person who is also from the same higher school. They try to be nice to graduates of the same school.
DeVorkin:
We call such a school an alma mater.
Koshiba:
Oh yes, that's it, alma mater.
DeVorkin:
It's the feeling of comradeship.
Koshiba:
That's right. This senior person kindly offered a job to my father which was not a very respectable appointment. However, my father and mother and younger brothers had to live. But, still there wasn't enough money, so while I was attending the university I did all sorts of odd jobs.
DeVorkin:
So you went to the University of Tokyo.
Koshiba:
Yes. Uh-huh. Like for instance tutoring rich people's children, or sometimes I went to Yokohama to unload the —
DeVorkin:
Oh, to work on the docks unloading ships?
Koshiba:
That was from 8 o'clock at night to 8 o'clock in the morning.
DeVorkin:
Boy.
Koshiba:
[laughs] Yes. I did all sorts of odd jobs to help my family.
DeVorkin:
Did your brothers also work, or they were younger.
Koshiba:
They were too young to work.
DeVorkin:
Much younger. Okay.
Koshiba:
But my elder sister did help, because she was rather good in making dresses. So she also helped the family.
DeVorkin:
Okay. Now you took the physics exams and so you took the physics courses. Did this sustain you in physics? I mean you had made your mind up for physics, or were there still other possibilities?
Koshiba:
Well, as I told you, because I was in financial straights, because I had to take on various odd jobs, I couldn't attend my courses. Therefore, when I was nearing graduation, the records were very, very poor. In Japanese grading, if the top level is called excellent, then good, then in English you would probably you call them fair.
DeVorkin:
Unsatisfactory or something.
Koshiba:
Fair. Almost all the grades I obtained were fair. I had only two excellents. That put me almost at the end of 29 students in the physics department. Therefore, asking for a scholarship in the graduate school or assistantship was out of the question for me. I didn't know what to do. However, luckily, I was vice president of the student body.
DeVorkin:
Well, this was back in high school.
Koshiba:
Back in high school. At that time, the principal of the first higher school was a well-known philosopher called Professor Amano. Professor Amano after being the principal of the first higher school, was appointed the minister of education. And this Professor Amano, while I was working as vice president of the student body, was very, very nice to me. Further, Professor Amano was also a graduate of the higher school. After graduation, he went to Kyoto University rather than Tokyo University, because he wanted to study under Professor Tomonaga, a well-known philosopher at the University of Kyoto, who also happens to be the father of Professor Tomonaga, the physicist. Okay?
DeVorkin:
Oh, I see. Okay.
Koshiba:
And Professor Tomonaga, the philosopher, was a go-between for Professor Amano's marriage. And Professor Amano was a go-between for Professor Shinichiro Tomonaga's marriage. Shinichiro Tomonaga is a physicist.
DeVorkin:
Interesting connections. Okay.
Koshiba:
Yes. And then when I was asked by Professor Armano which department I was going to go into, I told him that luckily I could go into the physics department. Professor Armano said, "I know a physicist; I don't know how good he is in physics, however he is the son of my professor and I made the arrangements for his marriage. He is living in Tokyo, so I'll give you a letter of introduction." So with this letter I went to Professor Tomonaga's place, and that was the beginning of my acquaintance with Professor Tomonaga. And as I said yesterday, I'm very lucky so many important people have been so nice to me. And Professor Tomonaga was very, very nice to me. At the end of my university days he asked me what I wanted to do. I said well even though I learned only the beginning of physics, physics seems to be interesting. However, because of the odd jobs and so forth, my grades were not good enough to continue graduate work. That was the time when Professor Yukawa, while he was a professor at Columbia at that time, met Professor Marshak of Rochester at a New York meeting of the APS. In those days, all good American students, especially in physics, went to Harvard, MIT, Cal Tech, Berkeley, or Princeton. Rochester couldn't get any good students. Therefore, Marshak wanted to get a good student from outside the country. He tried first in India, and then he worked on Yukawa to send a Japanese graduate student to Rochester. However, in order to get this scholarship at Rochester, you have to get a recommendation from a well known physicist like Yukawa or Tomonaga. I was very lucky since I already knew Tomonaga for some time. I hesitatingly asked him if he would write a recommendation letter for me. He said, smiling, "Alright. You write the recommendation yourself, I will make some corrections and so forth, and then I will sign it." So, I wrote that, even though as the attached record shows this man does not have very good grades, I have known him for some years, and he is not completely stupid. That kind of thing. Then he signed it. Fortunately, I was taken on as a research assistant by Rochester.
DeVorkin:
Oh, so you had research money or support that way.
Koshiba:
To support myself.
DeVorkin:
Right.
Koshiba:
Which was $120 a month. However, in those days with the official exchange rate, a professor at the University of Tokyo earned something like $70 a month. So I thought I would become very rich going to Rochester. However, I didn't know that the living expenses were much higher — $120 minus 10 percent deduction left $108 a month which was not quite enough to live on, even for a single graduate student.
DeVorkin:
Before you get too far there, I would like to know, did you actually take courses from Tomonaga?
Koshiba:
No. Not at all. I did attend some seminars he organized.