What should be an ideal indicator of the effeciency of education?
Is being taught in class and getting a diploma a good indicator?
In my opinion, it's partly yes.... Abiility to differntiate right and wrong using all available information and mentality seems to be more important than fullfilment in a curriculum, passing tests and earning a diploma....
There are many scam programs out there in our country... Sadly, our scholars still are being victimized by those.... If quality of the graduates is a major, desirable trait of education, this clearly indicates failure in our education system...
We're not going anywhere if our "output" from education system cannot even think to protect themselves.
I gave some of comments in the thread about this kind of programs.. Here they are:
----------------------------------------------------------- Before Work and Travel (W/T) Program, there was the Au Pair Program... In my opinion, both of these programs are seeking for "cheap labors".... by EXPLOITING hopes and positive, imaginary attitudes about "Hollywood American lifestyles" to Thai youngsters.
So, it depends purely on luck of those guys.... what, where, when and whom are those guys living with and/or depending on...
Pure luck?... If my statement is true, I won't buy it krub... Too risky and I'm not desperate!! :)
And, if you're my relatives, I will not recommend any of you to fall into these kinds of exploitation or a new, fashionable way to say SLAVERY!! ----------------------------------------------------------- Regarding to the comment above based on one individual whose got good experiences by his own, it is fair enough to discuss based on his perspectives.
However, I have some points that I would like to make and clarify;
1. Fair, cheap labor?
Although, employers of the business pay the employees from W/T Program.... Why didn't they pay at the minimal rate wages at which normal Americans earn?
Did they "import" these cheaper labors into their businesses because they couldn't find legal, domestic American labors or they would like to pay at a cheaper rate?
I don't know the answer... Anyway whatever the answer is, it's not fair for employees from W/T program in my point of view...
2. Fair, when compared to domestic, American labors?
I admire and respect those American kids who work for their own education and better life, and I feel the same way for every Thai youngsters who do that...
There are some critically different points between these two groups: American teenagers and Thai in W/T Program... The American teenagers could quit or destine their own faith while the Thai in this program can't. Do these people different? Why can't the Thai voice their opinions about unfair, mistreated situations? Why do they have to put up with these? Is this fair?
My personal answer to the last question is "NO".... It's not fair... So when something is obviously unfair, I would not like to participate or encourage anyone to experience it.
Life is about making choices, I make my choice not to be exploited because my nationality (THAI) literally means "INDEPENDENCE or NOT BEING A SLAVE".
What is your choice is not my business nor my concerns, live your life well... ----------------------------------------------------------- As a university instructor/scientist, I have several jobs to do--- primary one is to immune my students with good reasoning....
As a scientist, I'm studying cancer in an American university; how a chemical causes cancer--- Risk that Americans allow any chemical to cause cancers in their population is ONE IN A MILLION in one life time.
How about acceptable risk for the students in this W/T Program?
One in a million may be too small... So I kindly reduce it to 1:1,000.... To attain this timid, less-proactive goal, I swear to god that if I have a chance to participate or supervise any investigation upon this program, I will DO MY BEST to achieve this goal....
I'm sick to my stomach when I read through any cases with bad experiences upon this and similar programs....
I will do anything to protect my students.... and immune them with realistic reasonings not to be entrapped by any illusional, imaginary, money-minded thoughts deriving from capitalistic ideas. -----------------------------------------------------------
“As a university instructor/scientist, I have several jobs to do--- primary one is to immune my students with good reasoning....”
This topic is very interesting, krub. I think many people believe that instructors will just come to class and teach…and that is all. But I think the teaching profession is more challenging than that—because instructors can make a big impact on their students’ lives, they need to take the time to think of what to teach. I remember a quote my professor say on the first day in The Teaching of Literature seminar I attended a couple of years ago (and here I paraphrase): The first question you should ask yourself is, What do I want my students to learn?, because the answer to the question would shape your teaching.
Well, it doesn’t seem too hard a question, does it? Especially for some teachers who can just teach, and be done with it; they don’t care much. But for many other instructors who take education seriously may take their whole lifetime to answer this question.
As for me, if I have a chance to teach in the future (and I hope that I do), I would teach my students to be critical of their thinking, emphasizing this notion: “Don’t jump into conclusion until you’re aware of all aspects of the subjects you’re about to conclude.” (I thank Professor Nelson from my Short Novel class for this thinking.) Also, I would let the students see that all people are connected on some level, so don’t discriminate. (The notion taken from Professor Srikanth from my Contemporary American Literature.) Of course, there are more I would like to say, but these two are very influential in my thinking today.
To answer the other question, What should be the best indicator of the efficiency of education?, I would say, “what students learn matters the most.” I wouldn’t care if my students didn’t learn something I WISH them to learn. You may think this statement is a little too extreme, but let’s face it: how many of us do take class’ content seriously? Most of us just want to pass those darn-hard exams and get to the next semester…umm…until we are done with all required credits to graduate. And those exams are mostly designed to test what the instructors want their students to learn. So, passing exams means understanding what the instructors what you to learn. (However, in most cases, students do pass without understanding what happened in class! Right?) Therefore, I would emphasize on what students did actually learn from my classes.
If my initial goal for teaching “Statistics” was for them to learn how to interpret the T score, but my students didn’t get that and learned something else, that’s fine with me. But they would have to prove to me that they did learn something. I was lucky to be in such a class… Short Novel with Professor Nelson and Group Dynamics with Professor Conrad.
Short Novel: In class we read, well, short novels, because this was a Short Novel class. In addition, he asked us to keep a journal recording our experiences with our reading, our readings, our lives, etc. Well, anything at all! So, I did just that. I put my thoughts into the notebook—thoughts about the world around me, about my thoughts in general, about articles I read at the time, about what happened in class, etc. Most of these had nothing to do with what we studied in class. But if that’s the case, why bother taking this class? I could just do this at home. You’re correct. But what these activities taught me was “literature was about our lives! It’s not about being able to interpret the symbols.”
Group Dynamics, with Prof. Conrad: No tests, no exams. Well, if passing an exam is taken to be the best indicator in measuring the efficiency of education, what about this class? We had no quizzes, no exams. Does it mean that I learned nothing from this class? Wrong! Prof. Conrad would come to class and asked us to vote—as a group—if we wanted to have a midterm. Not so easy. Along with others, I raised my hand in class, saying that, “Yes, we need an exam!” Others said, “No, it’s not necessary.” It took us to classes to come up with a consensus (i.e. no exam). And THAT’S EXACTLY GROUP DYNAMICS WAS ALL ABOUT—it’s about people in group, arguing, forming group (with your supporters), hesitating to voice your opinion if no one wanted to be on your side, compromising, etc. An exam was not an indicator of “my” learning, but what I learned from taking the class was. I say “my” because I can’t speak for other classmates; they may have learned something else (or nothing at all).
So, basically, what students matters the most and should be an indicator of the efficiency of education, krub.
*My reply may be a bit confusing, deviating from your main discussion. And for that, I apologize, krubbbbbbbbbbbb. Please take it as a freewriting….
================================= Note: My life has been intertwined with works and many others. New responsibility has emerged, resulting less and less time for my ordinary life. Although, a love to write is still intact... But having less time is related to having less imagination.... Therefore, I could not come up with new writings for quite some times.
It might be a good time for me to leave this forum for moment.... Please take it as Mr. A.T. is having a sabbactatical leave or something like that....
As noted above, my love to write is still the same... and will not be changed. Sometimes somehow, I hope I could come back and give some thoughts in this blog once more.
Cheers, Mr. A.T. June 6th, 2008
=================================
Hello,
My pen-name in Pantip is amatuer translator. Actually, I'm a lousy translator with lame translation. My pen-name is somewhat misleading, I have no background in linguistics what-so-ever. Anyway I love to read, write and communicate with people...
Reading is my most favorite hobby. I read everything from shopping bags to articles in theoretical physics. I do research and teaching for my living. So, reading, writing, thinking and doing research works are my everyday routine.
I would like to define myself as a person who is accepting new ideas and adopting those into my way of life.
I believe in power of knowledge/education. I think every society can be a better society with knowledge. Ignorance can be dispelled by it. Humanity can live sustainably and harmoniously with each other along with its biosphere with understandings in the nature surrounding it.
Apart from my philosophical thoughts reflecting who I am, I can tell you something I like or love in particular;
I love dogs.... Particularly, labradore retrievers.... One day, I would like to spend my time and life with them as a big part of my family.
Zhuge Liang is my hero. With his wisdom and faithfulness, he led a tiny army to a mighty and formidable kingdom. He left his humble residence with a hope to come back. But, sadly, he had never returned and died far far away from home in a horse carriage in a battle field. If I could choose where I would, I would say where-ever my lovely wife was nearby.
I value happiness and my family as my first priority. My profession and my philosophy come in the second. Pursuit in wealth has never been in my desire.
I'm glad to be your friend, and look forward to seeing you around krub.
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This topic is very interesting, krub. I think many people believe that instructors will just come to class and teach…and that is all. But I think the teaching profession is more challenging than that—because instructors can make a big impact on their students’ lives, they need to take the time to think of what to teach. I remember a quote my professor say on the first day in The Teaching of Literature seminar I attended a couple of years ago (and here I paraphrase): The first question you should ask yourself is, What do I want my students to learn?, because the answer to the question would shape your teaching.
Well, it doesn’t seem too hard a question, does it? Especially for some teachers who can just teach, and be done with it; they don’t care much. But for many other instructors who take education seriously may take their whole lifetime to answer this question.
As for me, if I have a chance to teach in the future (and I hope that I do), I would teach my students to be critical of their thinking, emphasizing this notion: “Don’t jump into conclusion until you’re aware of all aspects of the subjects you’re about to conclude.” (I thank Professor Nelson from my Short Novel class for this thinking.) Also, I would let the students see that all people are connected on some level, so don’t discriminate. (The notion taken from Professor Srikanth from my Contemporary American Literature.) Of course, there are more I would like to say, but these two are very influential in my thinking today.
To answer the other question, What should be the best indicator of the efficiency of education?, I would say, “what students learn matters the most.” I wouldn’t care if my students didn’t learn something I WISH them to learn. You may think this statement is a little too extreme, but let’s face it: how many of us do take class’ content seriously? Most of us just want to pass those darn-hard exams and get to the next semester…umm…until we are done with all required credits to graduate. And those exams are mostly designed to test what the instructors want their students to learn. So, passing exams means understanding what the instructors what you to learn. (However, in most cases, students do pass without understanding what happened in class! Right?) Therefore, I would emphasize on what students did actually learn from my classes.
If my initial goal for teaching “Statistics” was for them to learn how to interpret the T score, but my students didn’t get that and learned something else, that’s fine with me. But they would have to prove to me that they did learn something. I was lucky to be in such a class… Short Novel with Professor Nelson and Group Dynamics with Professor Conrad.
Short Novel: In class we read, well, short novels, because this was a Short Novel class. In addition, he asked us to keep a journal recording our experiences with our reading, our readings, our lives, etc. Well, anything at all! So, I did just that. I put my thoughts into the notebook—thoughts about the world around me, about my thoughts in general, about articles I read at the time, about what happened in class, etc. Most of these had nothing to do with what we studied in class.
But if that’s the case, why bother taking this class? I could just do this at home. You’re correct. But what these activities taught me was “literature was about our lives! It’s not about being able to interpret the symbols.”
Group Dynamics, with Prof. Conrad: No tests, no exams. Well, if passing an exam is taken to be the best indicator in measuring the efficiency of education, what about this class? We had no quizzes, no exams. Does it mean that I learned nothing from this class? Wrong! Prof. Conrad would come to class and asked us to vote—as a group—if we wanted to have a midterm. Not so easy. Along with others, I raised my hand in class, saying that, “Yes, we need an exam!” Others said, “No, it’s not necessary.” It took us to classes to come up with a consensus (i.e. no exam). And THAT’S EXACTLY GROUP DYNAMICS WAS ALL ABOUT—it’s about people in group, arguing, forming group (with your supporters), hesitating to voice your opinion if no one wanted to be on your side, compromising, etc. An exam was not an indicator of “my” learning, but what I learned from taking the class was. I say “my” because I can’t speak for other classmates; they may have learned something else (or nothing at all).
So, basically, what students matters the most and should be an indicator of the efficiency of education, krub.
*My reply may be a bit confusing, deviating from your main discussion. And for that, I apologize, krubbbbbbbbbbbb. Please take it as a freewriting….